Dave Lillard enslaved over one hundred people, including Lula Chambers. She did not know her father and her mother was sold shortly after Lula Chambers was born. The interviewer records in the first person Lula Chambers’s memories of the Ku Klux Klan and why some enslavers did not abuse enslaved people for economic reasons.
*Historically-used terms that are offensive, marginalizing and/or disparaging have been removed from the transcripts and replaced with [redacted]. See more information.
… I used to be scared to death of those old Ku Klux folks with all their hoods on their heads and faces. I never will forget, I saw a real old [redacted] woman slave down on her knees praying to God for his help. She had a Bible in front of her. Course she couldn’t read it, but she did know what it was, and she was praying out of her very heart, until she had drawn the attention of the old Ku Klux [Klan] and one of them just walked in her cabin and lashed [whipped] her unmerciful. He made her get up off her knees and dance, old as she was. Of course the old soul couldn’t dance but he just made her hop around anyhow.
The slave owners in the county where I was raised—the well-to-do ones I mean, did not abuse the slaves like the poor trash and other slaveholders did. Of course they whipped them plenty when they didn’t suit. But they kind of took care of them to sell. They had a great slave market there that didn’t do anything but sell slaves, and if they wanted a good price for them, the slave would have to be in a pretty good condition. That’s what saved their hides…
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
Lula Chambers
Unknown (Unknown, older than 90)
Grace E. White
Dave Lillard
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
St. Louis, MO
MO
KY
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Economics, Violence
Gallatin County, First Person, Dialect, Whipped, Witnessed Extreme Cruelty, Sold, Slave Traders, Klan/Mob Violence
In this excerpt, the interviewer recounts Madison Bruin’s memories of the Civil War in the first person. After the Civil War was over, Madison Bruin continued to provide free labor on his enslaver’s plantation although he was technically free. In 1872, he finally left the plantation, joined the army and served in a cavalry unit used to fight Native Americans. After his discharge from the army, he worked building a railroad before settling in Texas.
…During the war [Confederate General] John Morgan’s men came and took all the horses. They left two, and Willie [the enslaver’s son] and I took them to hide in the plum thicket, but we just got out the gate when the soldiers came again and they headed us off and took the last two horses.
My mother wore the Yankee flag under her dress like a petticoat when the confederates came raiding. Other times she wore it on top of the dress. When they heard the confederates coming, the white folks made us bury all the gold and the silver spoons out in the garden. Old master was in the Yankee [Union] army, because they conscripted [drafted] him, but his sons, John and Joe, volunteered…
During the war we got whipped many times for playing with shells that we found in the woods. We heard the cannons shooting in Lexington [Kentucky], and lots of them shells dropped in the woods.
What did I think when I saw all those soldiers? I wanted to be one, too. I didn’t care what side, I just wanted a gun and a horse and to be a soldier… When young master joined Woolford’s 11th Kentucky Cavalry, they came to the place and halted before the big house on the turnpike [road]… They were just in regular clothes, but next time they came through they were in blue uniforms. All my white folks came back from the war and didn’t get killed.
Nobody ever told me I was free. I was happy there and never left them till 1872. All the others went before that, but I got all I wanted and I didn’t need money…
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
Madison Bruin
Unknown (92)
Unknown
Jack and Addie Curtis
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
TX
TX
Fayette County, KY
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Civil War, Emancipation
First Person, Dialect, Whipped, Union Troops, Bound Out After the War, Fayette County
In this interview, which the interviewer records in the third person, Parthena Rollins recounts numerous stories of enslavers brutally murdering enslaved people. Teachers should note this excerpt contains imagery of brutal violence, and may not be suitable for some students.
*Historically-used terms that are offensive, marginalizing and/or disparaging have been removed from the transcripts and replaced with [redacted]. See more information.
…Mrs. Parthena Rollins was born in Scott County, Kentucky, in 1853, a slave of Ed Duvalle, who was always very kind to all of his slaves, never whipping any of the adults, but often whipped the children to correct them, never beating them. They all had to work, but never overworked, and always had plenty to eat.
She remembers so many slaves, who were not as fortunate as they were.
Once when the “[redacted] traders” came through, there was a girl, the mother of a young baby; the traders wanted the girl, but would not buy her because she had the child. Her owner took her away, took the baby from her, and beat it to death right before the mother’s eyes, then brought the girl back to the sale without the baby, and she was bought immediately.
Her new master was so pleased to get such a strong girl who could work so well and so fast.
The thoughts of the cruel way of putting her baby to death preyed on her mind to such an extent, she developed epilepsy. This angered her new master, and he sent her back to her old master and forced him to refund the money he had paid for her.
Another slave had displeased his master for some reason, he was taken to the barn and killed and was buried right in the barn. No one knew of this until they were set free, as the slaves who knew about it were afraid to tell for fear of the same fate befalling on them.
Parthena also remembers slaves being beaten until their backs were blistered. The overseers would then open the blisters and sprinkle salt and pepper in the open blisters, so their backs would smart and hurt all the more.
Many times, slaves would be beaten to death, thrown into sinkholes, and left for the buzzards to swarm and feast on their bodies.
So many of the slaves she knew were half-fed and half-clothed, and treated so cruelly, that it “would make your hair stand on ends.”…
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
Parthena Rollins
1853 (84)
Anna Pritchett
Ed Duvalle
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
Marion County, IN
IN
KY
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Violence
Scott County, Third Person, Whipped, Witnessed Extreme Cruelty, Slave Traders
The interviewer recounts her interview with Peter Bruner in the third person. Enslaver John Bell Bruner was “very cruel” to Peter Bruner. John Bell Bruner and his wife frequently whipped Peter Bruner and never gave him enough to eat. In the excerpt below, the interviewer describes Peter Bruner frequent attempts to escape, including his successful escape after which he enlisted in the Union Army during the Civil War.
…Peter endured torture as long as he could and finally decided to escape. He went to Richmond, Kentucky on to Lexington. On his way, he made a contract with a man to drive his horses to Orleans, but was caught while in Lexington. On his way, they caught him and took him to jail and he remained until his master came for him. This did not down him, for just as soon as he could he escaped again, and this time got as far as Xenia, Ohio, but was again caught and brought back. This time he was severely beaten for three hours.
When 17 years old, Peter was hired out to Jimmy Benton, who was more cruel than John Bruner, but was again brought back. It was then that he tried again to escape… This was about the year 1861, when the war had begun. Again he was caught and taken back…. He escaped several times but never could seem to get anywhere. Once when he and another slave, Phil, escaped they were caught and made to walk the entire distance barefoot. After this Peter was chained each night to a chair. One morning while eating his breakfast he heard a knock at the door and on opening it he found a troop of Union Home Guards. Jim Benton and John Bruner were taken to prison…
When John Bruner was taken from [released from] Prison, he was much better to Peter. Soon after John was released from Prison, Peter escaped again. This time he had joined a regiment in the war. He went through hardships, cold, hunger, and illness…
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
Peter Bruner
1845 (91)
Evelyn McLemore
John Bell Bruner
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
Estill County, KY
KY
Winchester, KY
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Escape, Resistance, Violence
Estill County, Clark County, Third Person, Whipped, Union Troops, Veteran or Widow, Hired Out
Frank Cooper was a child when he first spoke to his mother about her experiences being enslaved. This excerpt starts with her reaction to he and his siblings asking her about scars on their backs. After she has given them a taste of her experiences, she goes on to tell them of a time when she was whipped and severely beaten by her enslavers. The excerpt ends with her enslaver attempting to auction her off, only to stop the sale to an enslaver who only wanted to punish her.
First person, whipped, witnessed extreme cruelty, slave traders, sold (family)
Excerpt:
One day while my mammy was washing her back my sistah noticed ugly disfiguring scars on it. Inquiring about them, we found, much to our amazement, that they were mammy’s relics of the now gone, if not forgotten, slave days.
This was her first reference to her misery days that she had ever made in my presence. Of course we all thought she was telling us a big story and we made fun of her. With eyes flashing, she stopped bathing, dried her back and reached for the smelly ole black whip that hung behind the kitchen door. Bidding us to strip down to our waists, my little mammy with the boney bent-over back, struck each of us as hard as ever she could with that black-snake whip, each stroke of the whip drew blood from our backs. Now, she said to us, you have a taste of slavery days. With three of her children now having tasted of some of her misery days she was in the mood to tell us more of her sufferings; still indelibly impressed in my mind.
‘My ole back is bent over from the quick-tempered blows feld by the red-headed Miss Burton. At dinner time one day when the churning wasn’t finished for the noonday meal, she said with an angry look that must have been reborn in my mammy’s eyes—eyes that were dimmed by years and hard living, three white women beat me from anger because they had no butter for their biscuits and cornbread. Miss Burton used a heavy board while the missus used a whip. While I was on my knees begging’ them to quit, Miss Burton hit the small of my back with the heavy board.I knew no more until kind Mr. Hamilton, who was staying with the white folks, brought me inside the cabin and brought me around with the camphor bottle. I’ll always thank him—God bless him—he picked me up where they had left me like a dog to die in the blazing noonday sun.
‘After my back was broken it was doubted whether I would ever be able to work again or not. I was placed on the auction block to be bidded for so my owner could see if I was worth anything or not. One man bid $1700 after putting’ two dirty fingers in my mouth to see my teeth. I bit him and his face showed anger. He then wanted to own me so he could punish me. Thinking his bid of $1700 was official, he unstrapped his buggy whip to beat me, but my master saved me. My master declared the bid unofficial. At this auction my sister was sold for $1900 and was never seen by us again.’
Frank Cooper was a child when he spoke to his mother about her time in enslavement. Here, he recounts a tale she told him of the Ku Klux Klan coming into her town and the measures the men in town took to protect themselves and their families from the potential cruelty the KKK would bring.
*“Historically-used terms that are offensive, marginalizing and/or disparaging have been removed from the transcripts and replaced with [victims].
My mother related some experiences she had with the Paddy-Rollers, later called the Ku Klux, these Paddy-Rollers were a constant dread to the N***oes. They would whip the poor victims unmercifully without any cause. One night while the N***oes were gathering for a big party and dance they got wind of the approaching Paddy-Rollers in large numbers on horseback. The N***o men did not know what to do for protection, they became desperate and decided to gather a quantity of grapevines and tied them fast at a dark place in the road. When the Paddy-Rollers came thundering down the road bent on deviltry and unaware of the trap set for them, plunged head-on into these strong grapevines and three of their number were killed and a score was badly injured. Several horses had to be shot following injuries.
When the news of this happening spread it was many months before the Paddy-Rollers were again heard of.
Rev. John R. Cox was born to two enslaved parents in Kentucky. In this excerpt, he tells a story of his mother’s escape from enslavement and how she lived in the wilderness for 2 years before being recaptured and sold. He then relates how this led her to his father, how they were married and had children together while enslaved, including Rev. Cox. He finishes up by telling about his education, and the punishment enslaved people sometimes got if they were caught trying to learn to read or write.
A slave owner, in West Virginia, bought a thirteen-year-old black girl at an auction. When this girl was taken to his home she escaped, and after searching everywhere, without finding her, he decided that she had been helped to escape and gave her up as lost. About two years after that a neighbor, on a close farm, was in the woods feeding his cattle, he saw what he first thought was a bear, running into the thicket from among his cows. Getting help, he rounded up the cattle and searching the thick woodland, finally found that what he had supposed was a wild animal, was the long lost fugitive black girl. She had lived all this time in caves, feeding on nuts, berries, wild apples, and milk from cows, that she could catch and milk. Returned to her master she was sold to a Mr. Morgan Whittaker who lived near where Prestonsburg, Kentucky now is.
Dr. David Cox, a physician from Scott County, Virginia, who treated Mr. Whitaker for cancer, saw this slave girl, who had become a strong healthy young woman, and Mr. Whitaker unable to otherwise pay his doctor bill, let Dr. Davis have her for the debt.
At this time the slave girl was about twenty-one years of age, and Dr. Davis took her home to Scott County, Virginia where he married her to his only other slave, George Cox, by the ceremony of laying a broom on the floor and having the two young negroes step over the broomstick.
Among the children of George Cox and his wife was Rev. John R. Cox, Col. who now lives in Catlettsburg, Kentucky, and is probably the only living ex-slave in this county.
After the Emancipation Proclamation, by President Lincoln, in 1865, John managed to get four years of schooling where he learned to read and write and become very proficient in arithmetic.
He says that had he had the opportunity to study that we have today he could have been the smartest man in the United States. He also says, that before freedom, the negroes in his neighborhood were allowed no books, if found looking at a book a slave was whipped unmercifully.
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
Rev. John R. Cox
1852 (
Carl F. Hall
Dr. David Cox
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
Cattletsburg, KY
Kentucky
Unknown
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Family, Education, Literacy
Third person, slave patrol, whipped, sold (family)
John Rudd lived with his mother and brothers on a plantation in Kentucky. John’s enslaver sold one of his brothers, byt John, his mother and other siblings stayed together after the enslaver sold them all when he was a child. In this excerpt, he describes the barrel used to tie the enslaved to in order to whip them, and a grisly example of several enslaved persons getting badly whipped. One of them was a good friend of his, who then ran away and was found 3 days later hanging inside a barn, possibly a suicide.
*Historically-used terms that are offensive, marginalizing and/or disparaging have been removed from the transcripts and replaced with [redacted]. See more information.
John had only been at the Moore home a few months when he witnessed several slaves being badly beaten. Henry Moore kept a white overseer and several white men were employed to whip slaves. A large barrel stood near the slave quarters and the little boy discovered that the barrel was a whipping post. The slaves would be strapped across the side of the barrel and two strong men would wield the cat of nine tails until blood flowed from gashed flesh, and the cries and prayers of the unfortunate culprits availed them nothing until the strength of the floggers became exhausted.
One day, when several Negroes had just recovered from an unusual amount of chastisement, the little Negro, John Rudd, was playing in the front yard of the Moore’s house when he heard a soft voice calling him. He knew the voice belonged to Shell Moore, one of his best friends at the Moore estate. Shell had been among those severely beaten and little John had been grieving over his misfortunes.
“Shell had been in the habit of whittling out whistles for me and petting of me”, said the now aged negro. “I went to see what he wanted with me and he said ‘Goodbye Johnnie, you’ll never see Shellie alive after today.’” Shell made his way toward the cornfield but the little [redacted] boy, watching him go, did not realize what situation confronted him. That night the master announced that Shell had run away again and the slaves were started searching fields and woods but Shell’s body was found three days later by Rhoder McQuirk, dangling from a rafter of Moore’s corn crib where the unhappy [redacted] had hanged himself with a leather halter.
“Shell was a splendid worker and was well worth a thousand dollars. If he had been fairly treated he would have been happy and glad to repay kindness by toil. Master Henry would have been better to all of us, only Mistress Jane was always riling him up”, declared John Rudd as he sat in his rocking chair under a shade tree.
John Rudd lived with his mother and brothers on a plantation in Kentucky. John’s enslaver sold one of his brothers, but John, his mother and other siblings stayed together after the enslaver sold them all when he was a child. In his excerpt, he relates a story of his mother’s reaction to being whipped for no reason by her enslaver, and the resulting sale of his mother to an enslaver in Louisville.
Uncle John related a story concerning his mother as follows: “Mama had been working in the cornfield all day ’till time to cook supper. She was just standing in the smokehouse that was built back of the big kitchen when Mistress walks in. She had a long whip hidden under her apron and began whipping Mama across the shoulders, without telling her why. Mama wheeled around from where she was slicing ham and started running after old Missus Jane. Ole Missus ran so fast Mama couldn’t catch up with her so she threw the butcher knife and stuck it in the wall up to the hilt. I was scared.
I was afraid when Master Henry came in I believed he would have Mama whipped to death. ‘Where’s Jane?’ said Master Henry. ‘She’s upstairs with the door locked’, said Mama. Then she told old Master Henry the truth about how Mistress Jane whipped her and show him the marks of the whip. She showed him the butcher knife sticking in the wall. ‘Get your clothes together’, said Master Henry.
John then had to be parted from his mother. Henry Rudd believed that the Negroes were going to be set free. War had been declared and his desire was to send Liza far into the southern states where the price of a good negro was higher than in Kentucky. When he reached Louisville he was offered a good price for her service and hired her out to cook at a hotel. John grieved over the loss of his mother but afterward learned she had been well treated at Louisville.
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
John Rudd
1854 (83)
Lauana Creel
Benjamin Simms, Henry and Jane Moore
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
Evansville, IN
Indiana
Springfield, KY
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Family, Violence
Third person, witnessed extreme cruelty, whipped, sold (family)
Joseph Allen was an enslaved person who lived on the same plantation until the end of the Civil War. Here, he recalls instances of being whipped by his enslaver’s wife, and his attempts to retaliate.
Ole Missus was cross and whipped us children a-plenty. A white man taught us in their slave room. I learned my A, B, Cs quick, and Ole Missus caught me studying and learning. I ain’t forgot it. When she whipped, she stuck my head between her knees and clamped me tight. She slipped my garment aside and fanned me plenty with a shingle on my bare self. I was getting too big, and I studied how I’d break her. Next time, I bit her like a dog and held on with my teeth to her leg. Ol’ Missus was lame for a spell; I broke her. I says, “I’ll eat you up like a dog.” After that, she buckled me up on the ground and lashed me.
Almost 107 at the time she was interviewed, the interviewer notes that Patsy Jane Bland remembered a great deal about life as an enslaved person. Patsy Jane Bland was sold twice as an enslaved person and had four children when the Civil War began. In this excerpt, recorded in the third person, the interviewer recounts Patsy Jane Bland’s education, memories of a white wedding, and emancipation.
…She [Patsy Jane Bland] had to work, too, for life was not all play and she recalls sitting at the feet of her little mistress and learning to spell out her letters until the mother of the white child decided that she was getting too smart and she had to stop, until she was married to her last and fourth husband, who taught her some more…
[Patsy Jane Bland remembers a wedding of white people at the enslaver’s home.] The wedding preparations began days in advance with the saving of chickens and eggs and butter. The liveliest egg-beating, butter creaming, raisin stoning, sugar pounding, cake icing, coconut scraping, and grating, Jelly straining, silver cleaning, egg frothing, floor rubbing, pastry making, ruffle crimping, tarlatan smoothing, trunk moving time you ever saw, and the peeping at the bride with her long veil and train, and the guests the whole army of slaves turned out to help.
Aunt Patsy remembers the night before the wedding when they all gathered in the quarter to sing every song they knew over and over again, celebrating the leaving of the bride for Virginia and how Young Miss died soon after her big wedding and was buried in her bridal dress…
Already the mother of four when the Civil War began, Patsy remembered seeing soldiers, and “because they were scared,” the slaves ran from them and hid out. She remembered the day all the blacks on her plantation were set free. There was shouting and crying; there was joy and sadness. She said many blacks did not want to leave the plantation to go out into a world of which they knew nothing. Patsy, though, gathered her four children around her, and with her husband, who was named Wilson, left the plantation. When the fieldworker asked if she was happier free, Patsy looked off into the distance and said, “Free? Is anybody ever free? Isn’t everybody you know a slave to someone or something or other?”
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
Patsy Jane Bland
1830 (106)
Anna Bowles Wiley
William Kettering, Charles Morgan, John Boyle
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
Terre Haute, IN
IN
KY
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Education, Marriage (Whites), Emancipation
Shelby County, Third Person, Whipped, Sold, Veteran or Widow,
The excerpts below provide teachers a unique opportunity to consider perspective and decisions made by an interviewer. The interviewer Archie Koritz submitted two separate documents for his interview with John Eubanks.
The first, featured in “Part 1” below is written in the third person. In the excerpt, Archie Koritz shares the story of how the enslavers of John Eubanks allowed him to join the Union army during the Civil War, how John Eubanks enlisted, and his experience returning after the war.
The second interview is labeled “Part 2” and is written in the first person. The excerpt from this interview covers the same content as that in “Part 1” but the details included in this part of the interview do not appear at all in “Part 1.” The reader can speculate that “Part 2” is similar to a transcript of the interview and “Part 1” is closer to a report of the interview submitted by interviewer Archie Koritz.
[Part 1: Recorded by the interviewer in the third person.]
Shortly after the beginning of the Civil War, when the north seemed to be losing, someone conceived the idea of forming negro regiments and as an inducement to the slaves, they offered them freedom if they would join the Union forces. John’s mistress and master told him that if he wished to join the Union forces, he had their consent and would not have to run away like other slaves were doing. At the beginning of the war, John was twenty-one years of age. When Lincoln freed the slaves by his Emancipation Proclamation, John was promptly given his freedom by his master and mistress.
John decided to join the northern army which was located at Bowling Green, Kentucky, a distance of thirty-five miles from Glasgow where John was living. He had to walk the entire thirty-five miles…
[The interview lists the battle John Eubanks fought in during the Civil War, then describes return home after the Civil War ended.] Upon his return to Glasgow, Ky, he saw for the first time in six years, his mother and other members of his family who had returned free.
[Part 2: What follows is a different version of the interview, recorded by the same interviewer, but this time in the first person. Below are excerpts that cover the same topics described in Part 1.]
I was twenty-one when war broke out. Master Eubanks said to me, ‘You all don’t need to run away if you all want to join up with the army.’ He’d say, ‘There would be a fine if slaves ran off. You all don’t have to run off, go right on and I do not pay that fine.’ He said, ‘Enlist in the army but don’t run off.’
Now, I walk thirty-five miles from Glasgow to Bowling Green to this place—to the enlisting place—from home for miles—to Glasgow—to Bowling Green, thirty-five miles. On the road I meet up with two boys, so we go on. They ran away from Kentucky, and we go together.
Then some Bushwackers [during the Civil War, these were people who supported the Confederacy in states that remained in the Union (like Kentucky) and practiced guerilla warfare even though they usually were not in the Confederate army.] come down the road. We were scared and ran to the woods and hid. As we ran through the woods, pretty soon we heard chickens crowing. We filled our pockets with stones. We were going to kill chickens to eat. Pretty soon we heard a man holler, ‘You come ’round outta there’—and I see a white man and come out. He said, ‘What are you all doing here?’ I turn around and say, ‘Well boys, come on boys,’ and the boys come out. The man said, ‘I’m a Union Soldier. What are you all doing here?’ I say, ‘We’re going to enlist in the army.’ He says, ‘That’s fine’ and he says, ‘come along’ He says, ‘get right on white man’s side’—we go to the station. Then he says, ‘You go right down to the station and give your information…
…When I came back from the army, I went home to Mother and said ‘Don’t you know me?’ She says, ‘No, I don’t know you.’ I say, ‘You don’t know me?’ She says, ‘No, I don’t know you.’ I say, ‘I’m John.’ Then she cried, and said how I’d grown, and she thought I’d been dead this long time. I explained how the many fights I’ve been in with no scratch and she was happy…
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
John Eubanks
1836 or 1839 (approx 98)
Archie Koritz
Everett Family, Tony Eubanks
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
Gary, IN
IN
Glasgow, KY
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Civil War, Family, Emancipation, Enlistment, Interviewer
Barron County, First Person, Third Person, Dialect, Whipped, Witnessed Extreme Cruelty, Union Troops, Veteran or Widow, Notable
Samuel Bell was an enslaved person in Kentucky for 12 years before Emancipation. In this excerpt, he describes how the enslaved didn’t truly have rights under the law, and because of this, the enslaver’s rules were the only laws that mattered.
“[John Bell] … was a good and a just man and fed his slaves well. He only used the lash when it was absolutely necessary. You know how it is in the court! Well, it was the same way on the plantations in slavery days. A good slave was seldom punished, but mean ones had to be punished to prevent their taking advantage of their master and the other slaves. Slaves were not subject to the laws of the land, and this punishment had to be governed by a slave’s deeds and errors. The master’s will was the only law he was compelled to obey. When a slave refused to work, he was flogged until he was willing to work. The master had to feed and clothe him and expected him to repay with work.
Evall had about 200 slaves on a big plantation and fine race horses. He raised cane, wheat, and corn, and he had a big stillhouse to make his own whiskey, and he made it to sell, too.
We did our cooking in our cabin, and it wasn’t much except jowl bacon, cornbread, and syrup. I and part of our family were sold once, and ole Miss Evall’s mother brought us back the same day.
I saw slaves whipped at the whipping post in Paris, Kentucky, until their backs bled. And then they sprinkled the cuts with salty water.
Different slave owners would take their slaves to help other slave owners cut their winter’s wood, or husk corn, or shear their sheep. We got good food then and sometimes they used to let their slaves have dances together whilst they were working to get the work done.
Evall bought our shoes in Paris, (Kentucky) and if they were too big, we wore them, and if they were too little we wore them just the same, But sometimes we cut the toes out of the shoes to make them long enough.
Samuel Watson was very young when the Civil War ended and Emancipation was granted to those enslaved. However, he clearly remembers the struggles his family had after Emancipation. In this excerpt, he describes the struggle his mother had supporting the family, how his siblings became indentured servants, and his life as an indentured servant to an unkind employer.
Uncle Samuel remembers when the war ended and the slaves were emancipated. “Some were happy and some were sad!” Many dreaded leaving their old homes and their masters’ families.
Uncle Samuel’s mother and three children were told that they were free people and the master asked the mother to take her little ones and go away.
She complied and took her family to the plantation of Jourdain James, hoping to work and keep her family together. Wages received for her work failed to support the mother and children so she left the employ of Mr. James and worked from place to place until her children became half starved and without clothing.
The older children, remembering better and happier days, ran away from their mother and went back to their old master.
Thomas Watson went to Dixon, Kentucky and had an article of indenture drawn up binding both Thomas and Laurah to his service for a long number of years. Little Samuel only remained with his mother who took him to the home of William Allen Price. Mr. Price’s plantation was situated in Webster County, Kentucky about half-way between Providence and Clay on Craborchard Creek. Mr. Price had the little boy indentured to his service for a period of eighteen years. There the boy lived and worked on the plantation.
He said he had a good home among good people. His master gave him five real whippings within a period of fourteen years but Uncle Samuel believes he deserved every lash administered.
It was the custom for a slave indentured to a master to be given a fair education, a good horse, bridle, saddle and a suit of clothes for his years of toil, but Mr. Price did not believe the boy deserved the pay and refused to pay him. A lawyer friend sued in behalf of the N***o and received a judgement of $115.00 (one hundred and fifteen dollars). Eighteen dollars repaid the lawyer for his service and Samuel started out with $95.00 and his freedom.
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
Samuel Watson
1862
Lauana Creel
Thomas Watson
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
Evansville, IN
Indiana
Clay, KY
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Emancipation, Economics, Equality
Third person, Dialect, Bound out after war, whipped, notable,
Sarah Frances Shaw Graves’ enslaver moved her from Kentucky to Missouri at a young age. In this excerpt, she gives details about what it’s like to be whipped by an enslaver. She then tells a story of how she was blamed for something one of the enslaver’s children did, and was nearly whipped twice for this.
Yes ma’am. Some masters were good and some were bad. My mama’s master whipped his slaves for pastime. My master was not so bad as some were to their slaves. I’ve had many a whipping, some I deserved, and some I got for being blamed for doing things the master’s children did. My master whipped his slaves with a cat-o’-nine-tails. He’d say to me, ’You ain’t had a currying down for some time. Come here!!!’ Then he whipped me with the cat. The cat was made of nine strips of leather fastened onto the end of a whip. Lots of times when he hit me, the cat left nine stripes of blood on my back. Yes ma’am . . .
. . . I belong to the African Methodist Episcopal Church, and I ain’t never cussed but once in my life, and that was one time I nearly got two whippings for something I didn’t do. Some of the master’s kin folks had a wedding, and we walked to the church, and somebody kicked dust on the bride’s clothes, and I got blamed but I never kicked it. The master’s daughter Puss, she kicked it. Ole mistress she whipped me. Yes ma’am, she whipped me. It was the worst whipping I ever got. The worst whipping in my whole life, and I still got the marks on my body. Yes ma’am. I have them yet. When the master came home, he was going to whip me again, and I got mad and told him it was a lie, and if Puss said I kicked dust on the white folks she was a DAMNED LYIN’ DEVIL. He took the switch and gave Puss a whipping for telling a lie. Yes ma’am. That’s the only time I ever cussed in my life. Yes ma’am, and that’s about all I know about slavery and folks’ ways hereabouts.
America Morgan and her entire family were enslaved by a cruel enslaver named Clark Rudd. Here, Mrs. Morgan describes various instances of extreme cruelty she witnessed in her time on the plantation.
*Historically-used terms that are offensive, marginalizing and/or disparaging have been removed from the transcripts and replaced with [redacted]. See more information.
She [Mrs. Morgan] remembers very clearly the happenings of her early life. Her mother, Manda Rudd, was owned by Clark Rudd, and the “devil has sure got him.” [Her father] became a Rudd, because he was married to Manda on the Rudd plantation. There were six children in the family, and all went well until the death of the mother; Clark Rudd whipped her to death when America was five years old. Six little children were left motherless to face a “frowning world.”
…Aunt Catherine, who looked after all the children on the plantation, was very unruly, no one could whip her. Once America was sent for two men to come and tie Aunt Catherine. She fought so hard, it was as much as the men could do to tie her. They tied her hands, then hung her to the joist and lashed her with a cowhide. It “was awful to hear her screams.”
She remembers one slave, who had been given five hundred lashes on his back, thrown in his cabin to die. He laid on the floor all night, at dawn he came to himself, and there were bloodhounds licking his back.
When the overseers lashed a slave to death, they would turn the bloodhounds out to smell the blood, so they would know “[redacted] blood,” that would help trace runaway slaves.
Aunt Jane Stringer was given five hundred lashes and thrown in her cabin. The next morning when the overseer came, he kicked her and told her to get up, and wanted to know if she was going to sleep there all day. When she did not answer him, he rolled her over and the poor woman was dead, leaving several motherless children.
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
America Morgan
1852 (85)
Anna Pritchett
Clark Rudd
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
Marion County, IN
Indiana
Kentucky
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Family, Violence
Third person, whipped, witnessed extreme cruelty, sold (self or family), bound out after war
Tony and Becky Eubanks enslaved John Eubanks during the period described in this excerpt. The Eubanks family supported the Union during the Civil War and allowed the men they enslaved to join the Union army, which John Eubanks chose to do, joining Company K of the 108th Kentucky Infantry Regiment – a unit of Black soldiers who volunteered to fight. At the time of the interview, John Eubanks was the only surviving Civil War veteran in his town. In this excerpt, the interviewer recounts John Eubanks’s experiences during the Civil War in the third person.
The excerpts below provide teachers a unique opportunity to consider perspective and decisions made by an interviewer. The interviewer Archie Koritz submitted two separate documents for his interview with John Eubanks.
The first, featured in “Part 1” below is written in the third person. In the excerpt, Archie Koritz lists John Eubanks experiences as a Union soldier during the Civil War.
The second interview is labeled “Part 2” and is written in the first person. The excerpt from this interview covers the same content as that in “Part 1.” The reader can speculate that “Part 2” is similar to a transcript of the interview and “Part 1” is closer to a report of the interview submitted by interviewer Archie Koritz.
*Historically-used terms that are offensive, marginalizing and/or disparaging have been removed from the transcripts and replaced with [redacted]. See more information.
Barron County, First Person, Third Person, Dialect, Whipped, Witnessed Extreme Cruelty, Union Troops, Veteran or Widow, Notable
Excerpt:
…Shortly after the beginning of the Civil War, when the north seemed to be losing, someone conceived the idea of forming… [Black] regiments and as an inducement to the slaves, they offered them freedom if they would join the Union forces. John’s mistress and master told him that if he wished to join the Union forces, he had their consent and would not have to run away like other slaves were doing. At the beginning of the war, John was twenty-one years of age. When Lincoln freed the slaves by his Emancipation Proclamation, John was promptly given his freedom by his master and mistress.
John decided to join the northern army which was located at Bowling Green, Kentucky, a distance of thirty-five miles from Glasgow where John was living. He had to walk the entire thirty-five miles. Although he fails to remember all the units that he was attached to, he does remember that it was part of [Union] General Sherman’s army. His regiment started with Sherman on his famous march through Georgia, but for some reason unknown to John, shortly after the campaign was on its way, his regiment was recalled and sent elsewhere.
His regiment was near Vicksburg, Mississippi, at the time [Confederate General] Lee surrendered…When Lee surrendered there was much shouting among the troops and John was one of many put to work loading cannons on boats to be shipped up the river…
When [Confederate] General Morgan, the famous southern raider, crossed the Ohio on his raid across southern Indiana, John was one of the…[Black] fighters who after heavy fighting, forced Morgan to recross the river and retreat back to the south. He also participated in several skirmishes with the cavalry troops commanded by the famous [Confederate General] Nathan Bedfored Forrest, and was a member of the…[Black] garrison at Fort Pillow, on the Mississippi which was assaulted and captured. This resulted in a massacre of the [redacted] soldiers. John was in several other fights, but as he says, “Never once got a skin hurt.”…
[Part 2: What follows is a different version of the interview, recorded by the same interviewer, but this time in the first person. Below are excerpts that cover the same topics described in Part 1.]
…I was twenty-one when war broke out. Master Eubanks said to me, ‘You all don’t need to run away if you all want to join up with the army.’ He’d say, ‘There would be a fine if slaves ran off. You all don’t have to run off, go right on and I do not pay that fine.’ He said, ‘Enlist in the army but don’t run off.’…
We were infantry and pretty soon we got into plenty of fights, but not a scratch hit me. We chased the cavalry. We ran them all night and next morning the Captain said, ‘They broke down.’ When we rest, he says ‘See they don’t trick you.’ I say, ‘We got all the army men together. We’ll hold them back ’til help comes.’
We didn’t have any tents, slept on naked ground in wet and cold and rain. Most of the time we were hungry, But we win the war and Master Eubanks tells us we are no more his property, we’re free now…
The excerpts below provide teachers a unique opportunity to consider perspective and decisions made by an interviewer. The interviewer Archie Koritz submitted two separate documents for his interview with John Eubanks.
The first, featured in “Part 1” below is written in the third person. In the excerpt, Archie Koritz describes John Eubanks life during slavery, calling him “one of hte more fortunate slaves in that his mistress and master were kind.”
The second interview is labeled “Part 2” and is written in the first person. The excerpt from this interview covers the same content as that in “Part 1” but is a far more detailed version of John Eubanks life that goes into great detail about the cruelty of his enslaver. The details included in this part of the interview do not appear at all in “Part 1.” The reader can speculate that “Part 2” is similar to a transcript of the interview and “Part 1” is closer to a report of the interview submitted by interviewer Archie Koritz.
[Part 1: Recorded by the interviewer in the third person.]
Following the custom of the south, when the children of the Everrett family grew up, they married and slaves were given them for wedding presents. John was given to a daughter who married a man of the name of Eubanks, hence his name, John Eubanks. John was one of the more fortunate slaves in that his mistress and master were kind and they were in a state divided on the question of slavery. They favored the north. The rest of the children were given to other members of the Everrett family upon their marriage or sold down the river and never saw one another until after the close of the Civil War.
[Part 2: What follows is a different version of the interview, recorded by the same interviewer, but this time in the first person. The examples John Eubanks shares here about how violently his enslaver treated enslaved people do not appear at all in the full version of the interview recorded in Part 1. The brackets used below were inserted by the interviewer at the time the interview was recorded. ]
…I remember well, us young’uns on the Everett plantation. I have worked since I can remember, hoeing, picking cotton and other chores around the farm. We didn’t have many clothes, never underwear, no shoes, old overalls and a tattered shirt, winter and summer. Come the winter, it’d be so cold my feet were plumb numb most of the time, and many a time—when we got a chance—we drove the hogs from out in the bogs and put our feet in the warmed wet mud. They were cracked and the skin on the bottoms and in the toes were cracked and bleeding most of time, with bloody scabs, but the summer healed them again.
“Do you all remember, Grandpap,” [his daughter prompted] “your master—did he treat you mean?”
“No.” [His tolerant acceptance apparent in his answer] “It was done thataway. Slaves were whipped and punished and the young’uns belonged to the master to work for him or to sell. When I was about six years old, Master Everett gave me to Tony Eubanks as a wedding present when he married master’s daughter Becky. Becky wouldn’t let Tony whip her slaves who came from her father’s plantation. ‘They are my property,’ she says, ‘and you can’t whip them.’ Tony whipped his other slaves but not Becky’s.
I remember how they tied the slave around a post, with hands tied together around the post, then a husky lashed his back with a snakeskin lash until his back was cut and bloodened, the blood spattered [gesticulating with his unusually large hands] and his back all cut up. Then they’d pour salt water on him. That’d dry and then stick to him. He’d never take it off till it healed. Sometimes I’d see Master Everett hang a slave tip-toe. He’d tie him up so he stood tip-toe and left him thataway…
Master Everett whipped me once, and Mother, she cried. Then Master Everett says, ‘Why do you all cry?—You cry, I’ll whip another of these young’uns. She tried to stop. He whipped another. He says, ‘If you all don’t stop, you will be whipped too!’, and Mother, she’s trying to stop but tears roll out, so Master Everett whips her too.
I wanted to visit Mother when I belonged to Master Eubanks, but [enslaver Master Eubanks’s wife] Becky said, ‘You all best not see your Mother, or you’ll want to go all the time, then explaining that she wanted me to forget Mother, but I never could…
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
John Eubanks
1836 or 1839 (approx 98)
Archie Koritz
Everett Family, Tony Eubanks
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
Gary, IN
IN
Glasgow, KY
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Violence, Family, Interviewer
Barron County, First Person, Third Person, Dialect, Whipped, Witnessed Extreme Cruelty, Union Troops, Veteran or Widow, Notable
In this excerpt, the interviewer records George Thompson’s memories of enslavement in the first person. After describing how enslaved people were named, George Thompson explains how despite wanting to learn how to read, his enslaver used violence to prevent him from learning.
…I [George Thompson] was quite a small boy when our family, which included an older sister, was sold to Ed. Thompson in Metcalfe Co. Kentucky, who owned about 50 other slaves, and as was the custom then we were given the name of our new master, “Thompson”.
I was hardly twelve years old when slavery was abolished, yet I can remember at this late date most of the happenings as they existed at that time.
I was so young and inexperienced when freed I remained on the Thompson plantation for four years after the war and worked for my board [shelter] and clothes as coach boy and any other odd jobs around the plantation.
I have no education, I can neither read nor write, as a slave I was not allowed to have books. On Sundays, I would go into the woods and gather ginseng which I would sell to the doctors for from 10¢ to 15¢ a pound, and with this money, I would buy a book that was called the Blue Back Speller. Our master would not allow us to have any books and when we were lucky enough to own a book we would have to keep it hidden, for if our master would find us with a book he would whip us and take the book from us. After receiving three severe whippings I gave up and never again tried for any learning, and to this day I can neither read nor write…
Interviewee Formerly enslaved person
Birth Year (Age)
Interviewer WPA Volunteer
Enslaver’s Name
George Thompson
1854 (approx. 83)
William R. Mays
Manfred Furgeson, Ed Thompson
Interview Location
Residence State
Birth Location
Johnson County, IN
IN
Hart, KY
Themes & Keywords
Additional Tags:
Education, Literacy, Emancipation, Violence
Metcalf County, Hart County, Monroe County, First Person, Whipped, Sold, Slave Patrollers
Thompson_G_1
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